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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 10:31 pm |
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Exactly, then we're all covered to pass and fail as we like! and we can cite someone elses VE to get the answer we need!
Kev
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David
Banned
| Joined: | Mon May 26th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 376 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 06:56 pm |
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KevG wrote: Why don't we all phone our VE's and see how many different answers we get?
Kev
Probably because ALL the VE's would like us all have differing answers, then they would think we all don't know what we are doing, and they then may be right?
David
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 04:51 pm |
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Why don't we all phone our VE's and see how many different answers we get?
Kev
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David
Banned
| Joined: | Mon May 26th, 2008 |
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 09:40 am |
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The shaded grey areas are known as load bearing, but may not necessarily be prescribed areas.
An interesting discussion is in the Ford Escort rear chassis were they can corrode away outside the prescribed areas, but are still load bearing, the manual says fail this type of corrosion if it is likely to adversley affect the steering and braking of the vehicle.
So how do you test that with a road test not being part of the mot, and what happens if the rear end seriously distorted or worse?
David
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kev1975
Trade Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 5th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 324 |
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 12:24 am |
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aye , it does give something to think about .
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Wesley
Trade Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 11:15 pm |
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What about the diagrams in "The Manual"? Areas shaded Grey?
Is a Nissan Micra of any age, "A Monocoque" Construction? or Independent Chassis?
With several VE`s involved In KevG`s, refresher course, "The Manual" Depicts, A Very "Grey Area"?
Interesting!
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kev1975
Trade Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 11:03 pm |
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exactly my point , there is nothing in the manual about engine mounts being a prescribed area , although maybe there should be
if that was the case then you would think that you wouldn't have a non component related advisory for engine/gearbox mountings defective.
Last edited on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 11:07 pm by kev1975
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David
Banned
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 10:56 pm |
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KevG wrote: kev1975 wrote: this is probably another case of vosa not knowing what their people are telling us 
this sort of thing was mentioned when i did my training course just under 3 years ago , at that time we were told that even if the engine was attached to it it didn't matter as the engine mountings are not prescribed areas .
for this reason i will only advise "front crossmember corroded & holed but not within a prescribed area " or words to that effect .
Hi Kev
It was only 3 months ago. I know where you're coming from though.
Maybe someone else will have a definitive answer?
The instructor got several VE's involved, and they provisded us with this definitive answer, the course was at Chadderton.
Kev
Interesting how they at VOSA say fail it with an engine crossmember attached, in other words they don't want the engine falling out on the road?
In their last breath they said if an engine mounting has collapsed, the engine hanging out, pass and advise it, confussing?
David
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kev1975
Trade Member
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| Posts: | 324 |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 09:04 pm |
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KevG wrote: kev1975 wrote: this is probably another case of vosa not knowing what their people are telling us
this sort of thing was mentioned when i did my training course just under 3 years ago , at that time we were told that even if the engine was attached to it it didn't matter as the engine mountings are not prescribed areas .
for this reason i will only advise "front crossmember corroded & holed but not within a prescribed area " or words to that effect .
Hi Kev
It was only 3 months ago. I know where you're coming from though.
Maybe someone else will have a definitive answer?
The instructor got several VE's involved, and they provisded us with this definitive answer, the course was at Chadderton.
Kev
might need to make further enquiries on this , don't want points for doing what i was last told to do
saying that , the majority of old micra's i get in for test end up scrapped as they are so rotten .
had one in this week , L reg super s , completely rotten , floor , sills , inner rear wheel arches , offside front inner wing etc.
somebody had already replaced the crossmember on that one
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 08:58 pm |
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kev1975 wrote: this is probably another case of vosa not knowing what their people are telling us
this sort of thing was mentioned when i did my training course just under 3 years ago , at that time we were told that even if the engine was attached to it it didn't matter as the engine mountings are not prescribed areas .
for this reason i will only advise "front crossmember corroded & holed but not within a prescribed area " or words to that effect .
Hi Kev
It was only 3 months ago. I know where you're coming from though.
Maybe someone else will have a definitive answer?
The instructor got several VE's involved, and they provisded us with this definitive answer, the course was at Chadderton.
Kev
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kev1975
Trade Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 324 |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 08:50 pm |
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this is probably another case of vosa not knowing what their people are telling us
this sort of thing was mentioned when i did my training course just under 3 years ago , at that time we were told that even if the engine was attached to it it didn't matter as the engine mountings are not prescribed areas .
for this reason i will only advise "front crossmember corroded & holed but not within a prescribed area " or words to that effect .
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 08:41 pm |
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We brought this up on a refresher course. If its the very early Micra with no engine mount on the front cross member its a pass. If its the later onewith the engine mount then its a fail.
This is what we were told by the Instructor who made several calls to confirm this, so dont shoot the messenger!!
I have failed 3 this week!!
Kev
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Wesley
Trade Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 11:58 pm |
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| I have often wondered this myself, unless it is so corroded and deteriorated to the extent of non existence, that it might Affect the ridgidty of the chassis rails? Last edited on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 12:05 am by Wesley
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kev1975
Trade Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 11:49 pm |
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i have just heard today from a local lad in the trade that another mot station near to me is failing these old micra's on front crossmembers with holes in , can't see how they justify this as the crossmember is not within a prescribed area & has no adverse effect on steering or braking .
any thoughts on the subject ??
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