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motorwise
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Posted: Tue Aug 21st, 2007 01:41 am |
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Weetabix wrote: rogcov wrote: Hi All
I will be straight into work tomorrow to find the Quotes from 6th edition part 11 and 16 then call my new qc tester who said i could not fail extra items found on retests and point out these facts to him.
Rog
It's all there in the manual for all to see - in black & white.
Let your QC know & the VOSA VE, too...
thanks for finding that - it seems I need to have words with the AE (what do they know anyway) 
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Weetabix
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Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2007 11:45 pm |
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rogcov wrote: Hi All
I will be straight into work tomorrow to find the Quotes from 6th edition part 11 and 16 then call my new qc tester who said i could not fail extra items found on retests and point out these facts to him.
Rog
It's all there in the manual for all to see - in black & white.
Let your QC know & the VOSA VE, too...
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rogcov
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Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2007 10:55 pm |
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Hi All
I will be straight into work tomorrow to find the Quotes from 6th edition part 11 and 16 then call my new qc tester who said i could not fail extra items found on retests and point out these facts to him.
Rog
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Weetabix
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Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2007 12:26 pm |
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Quotes from 6th edition:
Section B, 'Retests'
11. "If clearly the vehicle does not meet the necessary standard, whether because the original defect has been inadequately repaired or because another defect is present, the vehicle must be failed and a further VT30 issued."
But also...
16. "If, during the retest of a vehicle in any circumstances, it becomes clear that there are additional defects that mean that the issue of a test certificate is not justified, a further VT30 must be issued."
Last edited on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 12:27 pm by
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motorwise
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 03:22 pm |
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Weetabix wrote: As testers, it is our job to confirm the vehicle meets the required standards for use on the road.
When retesting a vehicle - whether partial retest or a minor items retest, any further failable defect that we notice must result in a VT30.
Not failing additional items - such as the brake fluid leak, or bald tyre - just to cover the a**e of the original tester is the wrong attitude to take. Wearing blinkers and allowing such a vehicle on the road will be endangering other road users. Something that the MOT test is meant to avoid.
If the first tester failed to spot a bald tyre, brake fluid leak, broken spring, fractured chassis or whatever. Should we really be encouraging him to continue such practise ?
It is purely by chance that he happened to 'go sick' and the original poster spotted such dangerous defects that had been missed. But how many other vehicles had been given a pass certificate with other - perhaps worse - defects ?????
the correct course, as I understand it is to pass and advise the presenter on a VT32 ("blah blah excessively worn blah blah etc", I personally would add the text, "this should have been failed on original test") - you're not covering up for anyone, in fact you're dropping him in it, don't forget the test is only valid on that day
the retest is only what the fail items are and any associated items i.e. anything that may have been taken apart during the repair or anything that could have been affected by the repair, no more no less, for instance check all tyres to make sure they haven't been swopped around if one only failed, or RBT the brakes if they've been touched etc
having said that as I said previously I agree with you
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ccb2
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Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 07:23 am |
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| I understood the partial retest to include items involved with the failable item i.e If a wheel bearing failed the test then the relevant suspension joints should be re checked as they would have been dismantled in the repair of the bearing. As they would not have been tested in their now original state.
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Weetabix
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 11:44 pm |
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As testers, it is our job to confirm the vehicle meets the required standards for use on the road.
When retesting a vehicle - whether partial retest or a minor items retest, any further failable defect that we notice must result in a VT30.
Not failing additional items - such as the brake fluid leak, or bald tyre - just to cover the a**e of the original tester is the wrong attitude to take. Wearing blinkers and allowing such a vehicle on the road will be endangering other road users. Something that the MOT test is meant to avoid.
If the first tester failed to spot a bald tyre, brake fluid leak, broken spring, fractured chassis or whatever. Should we really be encouraging him to continue such practise ?
It is purely by chance that he happened to 'go sick' and the original poster spotted such dangerous defects that had been missed. But how many other vehicles had been given a pass certificate with other - perhaps worse - defects ?????
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motmac
Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 11:00 pm |
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motorwise wrote: Weetabix wrote: motorwise wrote: Weetabix wrote: If you are retesting the vehicle and notice additional faults, then really you have no option but to fail it.
You wouldn't be able to sleep at night if you let it go with something serious wrong with it.
you can't because you're only checking the fail items, nothing else, you'll get ticked off from VOSA if you do anything else - other stuff found can only be advised (dropping the first tester in it but he should have done his job properly in the first place, so his problem)
The original poster wrote that he was doing the re-test on minor items & noticed a bald tyre & brake fluid leak.
This had to result in another VT30 being issued, surely ?
I checked with AE and he said what went on in the previous test (apart from the retest items) is none of the retesters business - other stuff has to be just advised (obviously potentially dropping the original tester in it)
I agree with what you're saying but you're only putting your name to the retest, not the original test - if it's gone past the partial retest time then you can go for it because it needs a full test anyway
Your right,this is the point where i refuse to log on it.the government did a risk assesment about this before changing the retest procedure and they concluded it was acceptable......i beg to differ but we can only work within the guidlines.best advice is to cover your a**e the best way you can and if you miss something then take it on the chin and try not to miss it again
Last edited on Tue Aug 14th, 2007 11:02 pm by motmac
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motorwise
Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 10:23 pm |
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Weetabix wrote: motorwise wrote: Weetabix wrote: If you are retesting the vehicle and notice additional faults, then really you have no option but to fail it.
You wouldn't be able to sleep at night if you let it go with something serious wrong with it.
you can't because you're only checking the fail items, nothing else, you'll get ticked off from VOSA if you do anything else - other stuff found can only be advised (dropping the first tester in it but he should have done his job properly in the first place, so his problem)
The original poster wrote that he was doing the re-test on minor items & noticed a bald tyre & brake fluid leak.
This had to result in another VT30 being issued, surely ?
I checked with AE and he said what went on in the previous test (apart from the retest items) is none of the retesters business - other stuff has to be just advised (obviously potentially dropping the original tester in it)
I agree with what you're saying but you're only putting your name to the retest, not the original test - if it's gone past the partial retest time then you can go for it because it needs a full test anyway
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Weetabix
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 07:35 pm |
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motorwise wrote: Weetabix wrote: If you are retesting the vehicle and notice additional faults, then really you have no option but to fail it.
You wouldn't be able to sleep at night if you let it go with something serious wrong with it.
you can't because you're only checking the fail items, nothing else, you'll get ticked off from VOSA if you do anything else - other stuff found can only be advised (dropping the first tester in it but he should have done his job properly in the first place, so his problem)
The original poster wrote that he was doing the re-test on minor items & noticed a bald tyre & brake fluid leak.
This had to result in another VT30 being issued, surely ?
Last edited on Mon Aug 13th, 2007 07:36 pm by
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motorwise
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2007 11:52 pm |
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Weetabix wrote: If you are retesting the vehicle and notice additional faults, then really you have no option but to fail it.
You wouldn't be able to sleep at night if you let it go with something serious wrong with it.
you can't because you're only checking the fail items, nothing else, you'll get ticked off from VOSA if you do anything else - other stuff found can only be advised (dropping the first tester in it but he should have done his job properly in the first place, so his problem)
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rogcov
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 11:02 pm |
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Hi All
Thanks for the replies so far I agree with all your thoughts. One of the reasons I posted this thread is the test station I work at, we work on a shift system we work 3 days on and three off and are constantly asked to do retests from the testers on the other shift, after shift change over, and I get frowned at because I wont just retest the partial retest items and insist on looking over the car for myself before I issue a pass (I also would not expect another tester to pass one of mine as we all make mistakes ).
But to cap it all I was qc checked today by our new qc tester and he said that the local VOSA big wig had said that I had a higher than average retest failure rate and I had failed a couple of cars on items that had not failed on the first test (by another tester),
And I should have only tested the partial retest items.
Well as far as I am concerned if I find something that in my judgment should have failed and I am not happy to pass or advise then I am going to issue a fail rather that then some poor sod having a accident. Hopefully some one high up at vosa could read this thread. and PM me and clear this up once and for all.
Happy testing
Rog
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MOTman
Super Moderator
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 10:37 pm |
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I agree that you should use common sense. This is after all a good QC check.
The thing is however, most customers wouldnt be happy and this is where good PR comes into it. With the AE's agreement perhaps fix the new fail items for free and give other NT a 'ticking off'.
Plesae note that I'm aware of a case where a tester did fail it on re-test and VOSA became embroiled as the punter got narked. Guess what? You got it, VOSA are having the AE for the first NT's oversights AND for something both NTs missed ...........beggers belief doesn't it.
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Weetabix
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 10:13 pm |
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If you are retesting the vehicle and notice additional faults, then really you have no option but to fail it.
You wouldn't be able to sleep at night if you let it go with something serious wrong with it.
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foxy1230_4
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 09:51 pm |
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hi, this question is something that i discussed with our local vosa inspector. he said that upon signing the test certficate, say the car got pulled over by vosa, then you would only get tested on the items that failed via the original tester and he would be at fault..just as you said..however im with you i would feel uncomfortable signing the certificate..especially if they had an accident......
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rogcov
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Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2007 08:59 pm |
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Hi all
This is the question I have had different answers for from different VOSA area reps.
If I have to do a partial retest on a vehicle that say only failed on headlight aim and wipers, on the next day and the vehicle has not been removed from the garage but the original tester is now off sick , I then only test the headlights , wipers and anything that would have been disturbed while this was fixed. BUT !!!! THE ORIGINAL TESTER HAS MADE A BIG COCK UP AND MISSED, LETS SAY A WORN TYRE AND BRAKE FLUID LEAK.
Now do I pass it ? and inform the customer for safety reasons, or do a new failure . Now the chap from VOSA told me the other day I cant fail it as I only need to do a partial and if there was any come back the original tester would be to blame.
But my argument is that I am signing a legal document to state that at the time of test the vehicle met the correct requirements which it does not. And if the car was in a accident or roadside check who do we think the blame would fall on ?
Any thoughts on this all you testers out there or anyone from VOSA.
Rog
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