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R_Spooner
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 28th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 10:54 pm |
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Hi people,
Sorry for causing a debate that seemed to upset someone! Anyway thanks for the the advice and just to keep you updated, I got the car booked in for an MOT at a different garage that was recomened to me. I did not want to appeal as compared to a tester I have little knowledge of what should and shouldnt pass and did not want to pee the garage and tester off if the decision was indeed correct.
Anyhow, the car passed with an advisory note stating the front discs were 'slightly' worn and the brake pads were 'thin'. I asked the second tester himself about the first MOT and he was very surprised and advised that my rear brakes were in fact completely fine and the front as advised above!
I have read some other debates and I understand that its not nice when people kick off, 'man doen th pub' n all that....I understand as I work in insurance and a often get similar abuse. But on the other side of the coin it tends to be that the actions of the fewer create a bad repuation for the whole industry.
I just know next time I get told I need to have £XXX of repairs done then I will think...REALLY????
I'm thinking of complaining to the garage chain HQ, do you think it would helpful??
Regards
Robin
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Johnboy
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 10:15 pm |
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| Cheers for the PM Big..E. 'nuff said
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Johnboy
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 09:22 pm |
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To Big..E.
Sorry, cant see how my comments can cause you any offence, seeing as you have not participated in this post, would you care to explain?
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big..E.
Trade Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 330 |
| Mana: |   |
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 08:48 pm |
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Johnboy wrote:
Just to clarify, seen as people are taking my comments too literally,
Well that statement just about sums it up...been postin here for ages now,had a few minor disagreements but thats what its all about..But recently things have changed and I for one don't like it..As a "tester" i take it from Jo Pubman all day the last thing i wan't is to argue with a "Fellow Tester???" or whatever when I get home..Hope I posted decent stuff and tried to help things flow but IM OFF...seeya.......
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Johnboy
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 08:34 pm |
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Johnboy wrote: Discs have a minimum thickness quoted by the manufacturer. A quick check with a micrometre should confirm if they have worn enough to be regarded as a failure.
Just to clarify, seen as people are taking my comments too literally,
MOT testing standards, as we all know, are far lower than service standards, meaning items that are changed in the normal service scenario, would sometimes still pass an MOT test.
If an item is deemed lower than service standards, it needs changing, regardless of what an MOT tester says. I realise that some people are happy to run their cars into the ground, before they contemplate spending money on them, they normally wait until the MOT test is due, then moan about the amount of items failed.
Just for the record, discs have to be really bad before I consider failing them. I can honestly say that I have never seen a brake disc break up, even when they are very worn, very pitted or very warped, they still seem to hold together, for that reason, seeing as the risk of failure is minimal, in an ideal world, so should be the failure rate.
The original post that started this debate, didn't mention where the car was tested, I wonder if it was one of the national tyre/exhaust/MOT centres that just happen to fit brakes too???
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David
Banned
| Joined: | Mon May 26th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 376 |
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 10:48 am |
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Hi
Many testers and or peoples views on this sight appear to me to be advising of the manufacturer minimum recommendations as a guidline to issue a VT30 (Fail) notice. I am quite confident that the tester doing this is either not understanding the minimum standards to be applied, or seems to think that the manufacturer service standards are to be applied at time of test (MOT).
Whatever it is that causes a tester to think that way I don't know, but if the tester were to think about "safety factors" the manufacturer have to build into vehicle components, the actually forces applied to the brake discs from the brake calipers and pads, the reaction forces from the rolling road and the tyres, wheels, hubs etc, the shear forces involved are considerable high, so using common sense, if the manufacturer recommnedations to change the discs were vitally correct, and nobody changed them every time you could see surface wear present, every vehicle on the road would be in a dangerous condition, and VOSA would have major problems, and the civil and criminal claims would be billions per year.
This problem as I see it is down to Government attitude towards training, the styles of training and understanding testers ways of thinking, it really does point back to VOSA at the end of the day to retrain testers.
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Stealth
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 31st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 140 |
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 06:18 pm |
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As RFR says' this topic has been covered before, so care needs to be taken here. The manual states...
Because it is not practicable to lay down limits of wear and tolerances for all types of components on different models of vehicle, an NT is expected to use experience and Judgement in assessing the condition of a component. The main criteria to be used when making such assessments are;
a. whether the component has reached the stage where it is obviously likely to affect adversely the roadworthiness of the vehicle;
b. whether the condition of the component has clearly reached the stage when replacement, repair or adjustment is necessary.
There's no requirement to measure the brake disc thickness against manufacturers tolerance, as this is introducing a level of 'product knowledge' into the test. How many testers don't have access to manufacturers specs.
The key word in the reason for rejection is excessively, as in excessively scored, excessively pitted or excessively worn. Lets put aside the scoring & pitting bit, and leave out the manufacturers figures, and make an assessment based on what you see at the time of test.
Contact VOSA for a second opinion Robin.
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 09:54 pm |
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Johnboy wrote: Discs have a minimum thickness quoted by the manufacturer. A quick check with a micrometre should confirm if they have worn enough to be regarded as a failure.
We have been here before on many issues, introduction to manual clearly states fail criteria. "whether the component has reached the stage where it is obviously likely to affect adversly the roadworthiness of the vehicle, whether the condition of the component has clearly reached the stage when replacement, repair or adjustment is necessary."
I may measure disc's, and they are below Man tols. but does the above apply, if not pass and advise. My wifes car has a man Tol. of 2.5mm, they would need replacing every couple of months if I were to follow that, however when under this tol., if the above cannot be applied P&A, customer knows and you have seen it. As for advise on the disc's in question I cannot see them so not really able to comment, possible have a word with the tester and see what he has to say,
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kev1975
Trade Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 5th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 324 |
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 08:09 pm |
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| the discs could well be rotten & pitted on the inside faces , quite common on renault for some reason , especially low mileage ones.
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Johnboy
Member
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 07:50 pm |
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| Discs have a minimum thickness quoted by the manufacturer. A quick check with a micrometre should confirm if they have worn enough to be regarded as a failure.
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R_Spooner
Member
| Joined: | Wed May 28th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 07:21 pm |
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Hi all,
Been reading the interesting debates and thought I would throw this on in and get some advice. I have a Megane that went in for its first MOT today and failed due to the brake discs. The guy at the garage said it was down to excessive wearing but I have only done 18,000 and I am not a heavy breaker.
I compared them to my Dads car which is 2 years older, done 22,000 more and passed his MOT 2 weeks ago and mine do not look worse than his. It doesnt make sense to an untrained mind like mine and the cost of repairs is £350!!! Should I go to another garage for a second opinion??
Any input/advise would be gratefullly received
Robin
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