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gengis
Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 6th, 2008 06:13 pm |
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| the 3100 is kgs and on the plate in the cab, year is 1996 and its a ldv 400. i am of the opinion that it should be tested as presented ie camper not ambulance as there is nothing in it or on it to say ambulance, and looks like a camper inside, prior to printing vt40 and checking details it shows an ldv400 ambulance, with a warning about test class and amendments, when changed to ldv 400 camper all is well and ok to test in class 4 but only if ramp and beam capable!. luckerly we can test class 7 so the ramp and beam ok.
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David
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Posted: Sun Jul 6th, 2008 11:10 am |
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We have I think all put our views forwards with what we have regarded as right in our opinions, but none of us have really had all the relevant facts to base a proper decision on, and I don’t remember a model year being given to us either?
In one of my statements I did make mention to windows were RFR commented on their use, I new I had heard something about them from VOSA at some time in the past, now remembering they are in regards car derived vans, which are to be considered passenger carrying vehicles if windows have been fitted.
Now you have brought into the topic additional information regarding seats, now we can say that it is a class iV. The rear seats would not be considered for seatbelts, based on being round a table. Also you have brought into the question that the vehicle does not have capacity for carrying goods, therefore a Living Van is now “not” defined, which we did not know whether this capacity was available or not, however you have also mentioned a weight of 3100, which I took to believe was measured in Kg, but you did not given mention to its units, therefore I think that a class IV station would “not” be permitted to test your vehicle unless they have a suitable jacking beam and pit, with authorisation, or they have a class V or VII setup. This last statement is not saying the vehicle should be tested as a class V or VII, but only the use of class V or VII equipment tested as a class IV for the configuration and safety of the tester, assistant, vehicle, equipment etc.
I have just had a look at what appears to be living vans on the internet, hope none ever come my way for testing, otherwise I will go on the sick.
David
Last edited on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 02:50 pm by David
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gengis
Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 6th, 2008 08:51 am |
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| all your comment are very interesting bt the way it does have all the windows an ambulance should have its only mods are on the inside and there is no room for goods, also there is only 1 passenger seat and a drivers seat the lay out in the back is just the same as most proper campers seating around a table etc.
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 6th, 2008 08:24 am |
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Hi Weetabix,
no issues on what you have said, except we do not know how many seats, so it could be a IV or V.
RFR
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Weetabix
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 09:44 pm |
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It these facts are true:
1. It is an 'Ex-Ambulance' - ie NOT an ambulance anymore.
2. It has equipment permanently installed for the purpose of one or more persons to live in it - ie Sink, cooker, bed.
3. It does not have additional load space for the carriage of goods or burden not required by persons to live in the vehicle.
It will be a Class IV Motor Caravan.
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 08:52 pm |
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Hi David,
I think we are going to have to disagree on this one, with what we've been given as info, I'll treat it as a Motor caravan, and you'll look at it as a Living van, as for the info as produced from VOSA, this clearly backs me up and not you . You are being maneuvered into my way of thinking by saying that it is not an ambulance anymore, thinking of the original description does it not fit the M/C para in the testing guide, if so DGW has nothing to do with it, number of seats does. There is no mention of goods or burden being carried, if their was I'm with you
Have a nice evening
RFR
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David
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 08:04 pm |
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Hi RFR,
I know what you are saying regarding the windows not mentioned, somewhere from VOSA in times gone by somebody did mention something about them, which is why I mentioned them.
With regards the Ambulance as you say being a passenger carrying vehicle, I think that the VT9a is advising of the classes of vehicles more than defining their types of vehicles.
My understanding is that if the Ambulance has been modified with equipment in it to live in, then I didn't think it was a Ambulance anymore (modified) so I gave it what I thought was the best description from information available, i.e. Living Van, these would be classed as "Goods Vehicles" and not passenger carrying vehicles.
Look at my last post and see the latter information which is reproduced from VOSA
Thanks
David
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 06:05 pm |
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Hi David,
With reference to the Testing guide, electronic version or A5, say both the same thing, so up to date info. This is an important issue, and from that you have stated what the guide says and then are ignoring it to bring in the window "thing".
It does not mention windows in either description, and so it is irrelevant. The other important issue is that, a part from emission it does not matter what it was, it is what it is now.
As you say need to see or more info, but a part from that I'M sticking to my view which is what the manual says and you have repeated.
We must also remember that an ambulance is a passenger carrying vehicle and is looked at similarly as taxis "VT9A" for which goods vehicles are mentioned separately. Injured people may be a burden to the NHS but they are passengers while in transit, not goods or burden.
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David
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 05:44 pm |
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HI RFR
Thanks for the reply. I do believe I said it was a "Living van", and that I think it also covers Motor Caravans. The A4 Testing Guide may not be up to date either, we are now referring to the A5 version.
The Ambulance in question may or may not have windows fitted, I suppose I should have mentioned this, my fault, hence no windows, Living Van, windows fitted Motor Caravan.
For the purpose of the regulations."Living Van" means a vehicle whether mechanically propelled or not, which is used as living accommodation by one or more persons, and which is also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are "not" needed by such one or persons for their purpose of residence in the vehicle.
Now normally an ambulance is not a passenger carrying vehicle, but is primarily designed to carry a patient with a nurse, the driver not included may have a passenger seated in the front specified seat.
A "Motor Caravan" means a motor vehicle (not being a living van) which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accomodation for its users.
In Conclusion;
A vehicle presented without windows must be considered to be a van if a solid roof is perminantly fitted. An ambulance is not a passenger carrying vehicle, and therefore must be in the catagory of a goods vehicle. If items such as cookers, fridges, sinks, beds etc are fitted, and no windows, then my understanding is that it would be a "Living van", as previously stated the vehicle weight is over 3000Kg DGW, therefore i said it falls under class VII, this means in my opinion it must be tested at a class VII station, although it may be tested as a class IV.
As defined by VOSA; A living van is typically a coach, or a van with living accommodation.
They don't mention windows?
But my opinion is that an Ambulance is the next best thing to a van?
Cheers
David
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 10:15 am |
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Hi David,
Going on info provided and no mention of goods and burden can you please look in Testing guide A4 and let me know you thoughts again, on what info provided it is a motor caravan, and not a living van, they are two different things, M/C: number of seats decides class, L/V: treated as goods vehicle so weight. Provided vehicle weight or its weight now has nothing to do with it, if it is a motor caravan apart from can it be tested safely on stations equipment.
RFR
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David
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 11:12 pm |
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Hi RFR
One has to go with the information given from gengies in this case, therefore we are advised the vehicle has bed's fitted, sinks and cooker etc, therefore with respect to the Testing Guide, and the vehicle weight we have been advised of, it is therefore a goods vehicle class VII, and because it has got beds and cooker fitted, it is therefore classed as a living van, which I think covers mobile caravans
Thanks
David
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 09:21 pm |
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Hi Astroman, we should never go of bits of paper for a class, as what if last year this """"""van was a motor caravan, the owner then converts part of it to keep his sons go-kart, its now a living van, with v5c still showing what ever, if we used it we would have done wrong possibly for the change from motor to living could put it in a class we could not test, and recording it incorrectly on the system. The only thing that decides its class is the vehicle itself at the time of test, thats why we have to enter the class on registration.
Hope this helps.
Definition of classes and motor caravans and living vans is in Testing guide Sec.A4
I think!!!!
RFR
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ASTONMANN
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 09:05 pm |
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If unsure at the time I would ask the vehicle presenter for the reg document, to see if it is shown to be classed as a van (class7) or a motorcaravan (class 4 with minimal seating).
We must go off what the DVLA/VOSA database classes a vehicle as, or anyone could just put some windows and a couple of extra seats in any old van and try to get it as a class 4
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 08:44 pm |
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Hi David,
"Shirley" if it has all the equipment permanently fitted for living accommodation and no space for good or burden is it not a living van but a motor caravan and then IV OR V depending on the no. of seats. Would need more details or see it to be sure.
RFR
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David
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 07:43 pm |
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Hi gengies
Your ex ambulance with a plated weight of 3100Kg will need to be tested at a class VII station. From the description you give, the construction of the vehicle is deemed to be classed as a living van, therefore from an mot testing point of view, it is considered to be a goods vehicle.
Given that you do not have a brake test weight for this vehicle, due to modifications, the procedure is to ensure anything inside the vehicle which could move and be damaged is secured, then carry out a full roller brake test, then finish off with a decelerometer test for the efficiency readings, unless genuinally the wheels lock.
Hope this helps
David
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gengis
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 05:53 pm |
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| we had a ex ambulance ldv 400 with a plate weight of 3100 fitted with sink cooker beds etc, which class should it fall into, if it was a ambulance is there any items that make it so? does it always go on the original model/type or as presented!!!
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