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RFR
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 11:08 pm |
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Dare I say anything else, well I just have too.
911 MOT, thanks for your note, but my statement is not rubbish, and all I can say is that, if it is used as Stealth and others use it then that is up to you/them. It would seem I am not the only one to hear this, and just because it is what people have always done, it does not mean it is correct.
Headlamp scenario is n/s dip Not Working fail it using the hyperlink requires headlamp aim and check the aim on the o/s during test. On retest you would automatically check h/lamp aim. If both fail, them fail both under h/lamp requires aim check and again both would be checked on retest automatically because they were not working, no need for "items not tested" or abandon in this case.
Correctly applying the VTS device user guide and the reasons for refusal means there is no need to go near "items not tested".
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Wesley
Trade Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 11:08 pm |
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So, Why is it there? and is Useable, with relevance to Bulb not working on dipped beam and Aim not testable? and then able to correctly carry out a retest option, partial retest (left VTS) or, partial retest (repaired at VTS) Measured Items?
Last edited on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 11:15 pm by Wesley
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big..E.
Trade Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 330 |
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 10:08 pm |
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Not arguing either..But I still think Stealth covered this conclusively,therefore I'll carry on doing the same.(I had a refresher april '07 nothing said there)..
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Rebel
Trade Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 01:17 pm |
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"Have been told on a course that the "Items not tested" should not be used by NT's as it is only to be used by VE's.
I'm not getting into an arguement here, but in your defence RFR, I was told the same thing at a refresher.
DC
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911mot
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 31st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 80 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 11:49 pm |
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Sorrry RFR what I meant is what you were told is rubbish.
"Items not tested" should not be used by NT's as it is only to be used by VE's. "
I only meant to quote that bit
"Cannot see the point in dropping between funcions to achieve the same outcome"
Nope, nor can I. Just following orders
Last edited on Tue Apr 8th, 2008 11:49 pm by 911mot
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 10:25 pm |
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Well what a greeting to the forum, nice to see you wish not to discuss rather rubbish someones thoughts!!!!!! I will not stoop as low to call your post "RUBBISH" as some others may do.
Well Stealth Lets as you put it get back to the manual.
You are so off the mark by your statements, on using the reasons to refuse to test, sub section 2 in the introduction as a reason to use "items not tested" function in the component list.
Your next statement does read true but does not tie up with what you stated above it.
Some defects or scenarios might not be apparent during your pre-checks, and might only be seen half way through the test, so the next bit may then apply...
The manual says......
If, despite due care initially, it becomes apparent during a test that the test cannot be completed for any of the above reasons, you must fail the vehicle because the test could not be satisfactorily completed.
If during the test you are unable to test any items with refernce to the statement above you are asked to enter any RFR's and advisories and then abandon the test stating the reasons why and what has not been tested. So you do not use the "items not tested" function in the component list, you enter the reasons in the text box when you abandon the test. If you look in the VTS user guide under abandon test by NT it will give you this process for items which are unable to be tested and you issue a VT30. You say lets get back too, and stick to the manual to CYA, well this is what it tells you to do. If you can find anything in the "VTS device user guide" that tells you to use "items not tested" when you cannot test an item then give me the reference and I will do it, no questions asked, until then my abondon test by NT route stands without the need to use the "items not tested" function from the component list. Thereby CmyA!!!
As for 911MOT's statement, why go into enter test results by NT and enter RFR's and then come out andf go into abandon / abort and enter reasons for abondonment which is what I am saying and print of VT30 when if you go into Abandon /abort by NT enter reasons for abandonment and manual enter of items which were unable to be tested, and when you move onto the next screen, you then get to enter oddometer reading, confirm details and enter any RFR's etc, and print off a vt30. Cannot see the point in dropping between funcions to achieve the same outcome, I will not say what you have stated is "rubbish more so if I am wrong then I am willing to learn, so if I am missing something let us know.
Cheers
Trying to stay positive after a frosty reception 
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Wesley
Trade Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 10:01 pm |
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No You Fail the headlamp for not working on Dipped Beam, and then go to items not tested and select O/S or N/S headlamp aim not tested. This then falls into the Measured Items retest Category.
Read the intro in the Manual, You are able to request payment up front for the initial test.
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911mot
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 09:48 pm |
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So we can demand up front payment for the initial test.
Abandon it when we find a headlight not working and can't test aim
Ask the customer to pay full fee again for his MOT when comes back later
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Wesley
Trade Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 09:40 pm |
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respect!
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Stealth
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 31st, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 05:35 pm |
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RFR wrote:
Have been told on a course that the "Items not tested" should not be used by NT's as it is only to be used by VE's. Example given was slight bind on say rear wheel meaning, roughness in rear w/brg is not testable, pass and advice, and advise unable to assess w/brg due to slight bind.
CYA again.....roughness in the rear wheel bearing is a testable item. If you cant test for roughness because brake bind prevents it, then you cant make a proper assessment of the component !!!!
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Stealth
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 05:24 pm |
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OkK guys - we've gotta get back to the manual here....specifically the Introduction section, and 'Refusal to Test'
Here we go with the relevant bits...
Half way through a test you find there's hardly any brake fluid in the master cylinder. you then find that a wheel cylinder is leaking badly. You may decide it's not safe to do a brake test.
The manual says....
c. the vehicle is not fit to be driven when necessary to complete the test because of a lack of fuel or oil or any other reason.
Use the 'Items Not tested' function for the RBT. A*se covered & vehicle correctly failed.
During a test on a 4x4 the same scenario arises. 4x4 requires a decelerometer test, but you sure as sh*t dont wanna take it on the road in case the brakes dont work & you damage the punters car, and maybe others in the process when the brakes fail.
The manual says....
h. the condition of the vehicle is such that. in the opinion of the NT a proper examination would involve a danger of injury to any person or damage to the vehicle or other property.
Use the 'Items Not tested' function for the RBT. A*se covered & vehicle correctly failed.
Some defects or scenarios might not be apparent during your pre-checks, and might only be seen half way through the test, so the next bit may then apply...
The manual says......
If, despite due care initially, it becomes apparent during a test that the test cannot be completed for any of the above reasons, you must fail the vehicle because the test could not be satisfactorily completed.
Use the 'Items Not tested' function for the relevant defect. A*se covered & vehicle correctly failed.
If the dipped beam dont work, you cant test the aim - Item Not tested.
If the governor doesnt work during your diesel emissions test pre checks and you think the engine's gonna rev its-self to bits, it's not safe to do the emissions test - Item Not Tested.
The function is there, for you, as testers, to use, otherwise it wouldnt be there, so CYA and use it. Just make sure you always log the test and issue a VT30
VE's have their own smart card functionality to record a full or partial re-examination.
If you use the function correctly, accurately, and justifiably, and in accordance with the manual, you should never have a problem.
Oh, and another thing, you still get to issue a VT30 & collect the fee. 
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911mot
Member
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| Posts: | 80 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 06:46 pm |
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RFR wrote:
Have been told on a course that the "Items not tested" should not be used by NT's as it is only to be used by VE's. Example given was slight bind on say rear wheel meaning, roughness in rear w/brg is not testable, pass and advice, and advise unable to assess w/brg due to slight bind.
Rubbish!!!
How to use Items not tested....
Tested a Nissan Vanette today, a real heap. Both front brake pipes were absolutely shagged,no way I could RBT it and also it pisssing out diesel from above the gearbox.
So I did the test, without emissions and RBT.
Log off in the normal way fill out the RFRs etc but dont print out, instead return to menu and now select Abort/Abandon test and pull up "Inspection could cause damge or injury"
When you press continue it will now let you select items not tested from the RFR menu and will print a VT30 with all the previously entered fail items and the reason for not testing brakes and emissions.
Oh and you get to charge twice cos there's no retest for an aborted / abandoned test
Last edited on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 06:47 pm by 911mot
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nicknak
Trade Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 06:28 pm |
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What about headlamp aim when its failed for being inop would you use it then. I agree with stealth.
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big..E.
Trade Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 10:46 pm |
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RFR wrote:
Have been told on a course that the "Items not tested" should not be used by NT's as it is only to be used by VE's. Example given was slight bind on say rear wheel meaning, roughness in rear w/brg is not testable, pass and advice, and advise unable to assess w/brg due to slight bind.
If we ain't supposed to use it why is it there?.Has anyone else been told this?,I'm with STEALTH on this one surely we need to be able to say why we have not carried out parts of the test based on our findings..If I found a brake flexi pipe buldging under pressure I would fail it,and earmark as dangerous and would definately not want to do a RBT or even worse DECELEROMETER test but I would need to log my reasons for this.Same for no tailpipe,where you going to stick the sample probe???.(Please keep all replies clean)...............lol.........
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RFR
Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 09:35 pm |
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Stealth wrote: kev1975 wrote: You could always just fail it for not being able to test the emissions , can't remember the exact rfr but it's something to do with not being able to get the exhaust probe into the exhaust.
Use the 'Items not tested' option in the component list and make a manual note - for example - unable to test emissions due to exhaust condition.
Have been told on a course that the "Items not tested" should not be used by NT's as it is only to be used by VE's. Example given was slight bind on say rear wheel meaning, roughness in rear w/brg is not testable, pass and advice, and advise unable to assess w/brg due to slight bind.
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Wesley
Trade Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 10:25 pm |
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If you Abort the Test, You cannot work off your VT30 list and carry out a partial retest, measured items, The system won`t allow it,
So You have to carry out another Full Test and obviously charge accordingly, lol, Thus having to charge "Joe" twice? I`m sure he will love that? lol.
Last edited on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 10:31 pm by Wesley
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Stealth
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 04:18 pm |
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kev1975 wrote: You could always just fail it for not being able to test the emissions , can't remember the exact rfr but it's something to do with not being able to get the exhaust probe into the exhaust.
Use the 'Items not tested' option in the component list and make a manual note - for example - unable to test emissions due to exhaust condition.
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Spongebob
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Leeds |
| Posts: | 34 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 09:16 pm |
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I think (not 100% certain) but as with not carrying out a brake test for whatever reason you're supposed to abandon/abort (delete as applicable) the test, yet they still expect you to list any RFR's you find so it's less aggro to put the pipe in the middle and finish the test. Obviously if it's a front pipe that's snapped then that's different.
Thought the exhaust probe not fitting was for things like tailpipes with stupid grilled over trims on and suchlike, though a couple of the VW diesels with the twin ends can be touch and go especially if the exhaust has been replaced with a cheaper aftermarket brand one.
Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 09:19 pm by Spongebob
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big..E.
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 08:41 pm |
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| You can't put the probe in the "tailpipe" if it ain't there, "Major leak" springs to mind..
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kev1975
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 04:59 pm |
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| You could always just fail it for not being able to test the emissions , can't remember the exact rfr but it's something to do with not being able to get the exhaust probe into the exhaust.
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